One in four local authorities leave female victims of violence without the specialised support they need. Scary, isn’t it?
Find out how the flashmob went to spread this message for International Women’s Day
Make a difference – email your MP now
Of course, this campaign has a concrete action.
End Violence Against Women’s new website ‘Map of Gaps’ shows exactly which services for women escaping violence are lacking where.
See what services are missing in your local area, and email your MP directly on Mapofgaps.org – it’s that easy to make a big difference.
Want to do more to help?
Violence against women affects women globally, cutting across boundaries of wealth, race, and culture. Here are a couple of actions relating to women outside the UK.
The most common impact of conflict on women is the use of rape as a weapon of war. In fact, it is now more dangerous to be a woman than to be a soldier in modern conflict.
Justine Masika Bihamba and her family have been attacked because of her work as coordinator of a women’s human rights organisation in the Congo. Although they can identify the soldiers, they have still not been arrested. Take action now
Women in Iran are second-class citizens in the family and before the courts – yet more than 60% of university students are women and they work in all kinds of jobs.
Many Iranian women want to challenge this discrimination and they have asked the international community to support them in their struggle. Sign the petition to end discriminatory laws in Iran
To do even more or to take action on our other campaigns then register at ProtectTheHuman.com
Hi there, it would be nice if FB and Twitter made it easier to do this, ie chaing ones profile pic in the same way as one posts things to their profile
kind regards
Hi Angus,
On FB, hover over your profile pic and a ‘change picture’ option comes up… bit easier than it used to be!
Thanks,
Aggy.
The biggest killer of women aged 15-44 is not war, disease or hunger. Globally, it is domestic violence.
I find this fact both shocking, disturbing, and totally unacceptable. I wish you and oneten the very of luck with your campaign.
Regards
Sol
The avatars are excellent. I will change my Facebook right now and also blog about this on Friday.
i’ve been actively participating in these kinds of promotions, pledges, and letters against violence of all sorts…but do they really work?
men= perpetrators
women = victims
ISNT THIS JUST A BIT TOO SIMPLE AN ANALYSIS OF A COMPLEX ISSUE
WHAT ABOUT MALE VICTIMS IN THE UK OR ABROAD FOR THAT MATTER ?
“The biggest killer of women aged 15-44 is not war, disease or hunger. Globally, it is domestic violence.”
No it isn’t.
More than 12,000 UK women died of breast cancer alone last year.
DV is a leading cause of morbidity – lost years due to dv – this is not the same as it being a leading cause of death.
Divas: The focus of this campaign is to help try to provide services for women affected by violence in the UK. By contacting our locals MPs we will hopefully have a a real effect in ensuring more services are provided in future.
I agree with gary, there is obvious discrimination, men are victims too of domestic violence.
and i would like to find out where the 1 in 10 statistics came from, according tp this 3 million women are victims, what constitutes as domestic violence if this number is true?
could you please clarify when you use statistics referring to the UK and to Britain which include Northern Ireland and which do not,
please bear in mind that use of Britain when pertaining to the UK alienates a significant portion of the population of Northern Ireland
many thanks
Hi all, hope to answer a few of the key questions that have been raised about this campaign, so here goes…
What about male victims of violence?
Men are both the victims and the perpetrators of the vast majority of violence. This is not disputed. That includes, guns, knife and gang violence, street and pub brawls etc. However, the focus of this campaign is on tackling the specifics of gender-based violence; violence that is suffered disproportionately or exclusively by women and is targeted at women because they are women.
The aim of this campaign is to increase provisions of specialist services for women facing this kind of violence. These are needed to tackle the specific problems that arise from gender-motivated crime. For example: Rape Crisis Centres, services for ethnic groups that face specific gender-based issues such as Female Genital Mutilation (FGM), sexual violence services and services for those involved in prostitution and trafficking.
The issues being tackled under the banner of violence against women are not things such as muggings and general violence, but violence that is based on the historical unequal power relations between men and women, violence that women suffer just because they are women.
What does this statistic include?
The 1 in 10 figure is based on the number of women who suffer specific gender-based violence, such as rape or domestic violence every year. It also encompasses issues involving female genital mutilation, trafficking and prostitution. The aim of using this figure is to raise awareness and encourage lobbying for specific specialist services across the UK for victims of this type of violence.
I think we can all agree that just one rape crisis centre in London, for instance, cannot be seen as an adequate provision.
If you have anymore questions, please do feel free to post them here, and we’ll do our best to answer them!
Fiona
Amnesty UK
Thanks for your response Fiona. I’d like a bit more detail though…
For example, what is the source for the ‘1 in 10′ figure? Can you point us to some specific research which shows this?
Is this violence specifically at the hands of men in a domestic setting, or have you included in your statistic all reports of violent attacks made by women in Britain (i.e. also violence at the hands of other women, muggings etc.)? Your introductory statement on this page seems to imply the former.
Does your statistic only include acts of violence which happened IN the United Kingdom? If so, surely cases of FGM and trafficking can’t really be included, as they are very likely to involve other territories…
I think it’s odd that you’ve limited the information on this page to a rather vague 34 words at the top with no links to further information. The statistic you have based this campaign around is a very shocking one, which many people will find hard to believe so I think it’s important that you back it up with some hard, verifiable facts.
Oliver
Hi Oliver,
Completely understand your points; Firstly, as I mentioned, the 1 in 10 is an approximate yearly stat of the number of women who are affected by gender-based violence (eg. not muggings for instance). All the statistics we refer to have been based on the research produced by End Violence Against Women (a coalition movement we’re part of) in their Map of Gaps 2 report which you can find on their site at http://www.mapofgaps.org. If you don’t want to read the full report, the myths & facts section goes into more detail about some of the numbers used.
The statistic is shocking, perhaps why it is cited as unbelievable, which is why we are using it in this way, in order to draw attention to the vital issue of whether sufficient specialist services are available to women in Britain who face this kind of violence.
It’s interesting that this campaign, of all of Amnesty’s campaigns is often one of the most contentious!
This campaign has been posted over on the excellent weblog http://www.boingboing.net, and has started an interesting comments discussion. It would be great to get someone from the campaign there to discuss the issues with people. In particular, one user has posted the following comment:
”
I hate the unsourced, ax-grinding statistics here. How is this story a wonderful thing? Women’s groups have been caught over and over outright fabricating statistics to serve their purpose of slandering men, but it never seems to affect their credibility. Domestic violence is as or more commonly committed by women against men than the reverse. This is shown in literally hundreds of studies. I have spent many tens of hours studying the evidence on this topic over the years, I’m not going to cite everything I have looked at, (or all the interesting cases I have seen in thousands of hours working in a family-law practice with a female attorney who specialized in defending fathers). Go out and search with “men’s rights” included in the terms and you will find links on those pages to the peer-reviewed papers in good journals.
For example, here’s a paper from the UK: “Sex differences in aggression between heterosexual partners: A meta-analytic review.” (Archer, John. Psychological Bulletin. Vol 126(5), Sep 2000, 651-680.) From the abstract: “Women were slightly more likely (d = -.05) than men to use one or more acts of physical aggression and to use such acts more frequently. Men were more likely (d = .15) to [physically] inflict an injury, and overall, 62% of those injured by a partner were women.” Other studies have noted that women are more likely to use weapons and to inflict severe injuries on their partners than men, and likelihood of punishment for women murdering their partners is substantially lower.
Emotional abuse, particularly severe emotional abuse, is far more commonly committed by women against men than the reverse, women physically and emotionally abuse children far more often than men, yet somehow it is women’s purported powerlessness and victimhood which must never be denied, women’s motives and methods which must never be questioned. The term “rape” is too often a political club wielded by female chauvinists, as they define it in a way that only applies to men, and they define it in a way that it can mean not only rape but all sorts of other things such as “I felt pressured” or “I later regretted it”, or “she says she’s a victim, no need to look at facts, let alone his side of the story”. And by social agreement, none of the awful things a woman can do to a man are judged as being as bad, no matter what the cost to the man, no matter what his feelings.
Now this chauvinist group fudges the concept still further by saying “rape or other violence” without comparing it to the greater rate of violence against men committed by both sexes, nor asking what portion of the alleged victims of violence initiated the violence themselves. Nobody should get to start a fight, claim to be a victim by virtue of the privileges of their sex, then parlay that into government funding to be made available only to their sex.”
I imagine an Amnesty representative (or an End Violence Against Women rep) would be best placed to respond to this commenter’s points.
Thanks.
The most common impact of conflict on women is the use of rape as a weapon of war. In fact, it is now more dangerous to be a woman than to be a soldier in modern conflict.
Poland-many women experience discrimination and violence!
Sweden-discrimination muslim women!
Stop!
Thanks fiona, firstly for your great work and dedication to all causes, secondly for giving me a chance to spread the word on myspace with this link.
Peace & Blessings
Emma
In response to 13strong’s post:
He states that he works ‘in a family-law practice with a female attorney who specialised in defending fathers’ and that’s wonderful for those fathers who need defending and good for him for all his hard work, but why is he so angered at similar potential provision and support for women?
Michelle
Why is Amnesty engaged in running/supporting a campaign which to use a phrase from A101
Introductuon to the Arts “wittingly” or “unwittingly” infers that violence against women is a more
worthy issue.
Well the point is that there is no such thing as domestic violence so using it in this context is a bit dubious because its just perpetrates the myth that there is a separate domestic sphere in which
violence occurs separately from the public environment
there is in fact violent crime including
Murder/Manslaughter
ABH/ng with Intent
previous message continued
By all means run a campaign against violence but I repeat why run one with a gender bias
and even you think its appropriate cut the use of Domestic Violence and call VIOLENT CRIME
what it is not the shorthand phrase which is actually illogical given the basis of the campaign.
What about the stats that show a high case of DV within lesbian couples, which shows that not only men, but women are the perpetrators. Last I heard between 1/4 and 1/3 of these types of relationships suffer a domestic abuse, whether it be verbal, physical, mental, etc.
Guys, Amnesty International does campaigns about all sorts of things, each campaign is targeted at one in particular. Saying this one should include violence against men is like saying campaigns to raise awareness about cancer are wrong because they leave out other illnesses… Let’s do things one at a time. This is not a campaign against men, it’s about violence against women, focus on that for now. There’s plenty of causes worth fighting for, no point fighting each others to find out which one’s the most worthy.
I completely agree with you Amelie.
I’m sure that if Amnesty was highlighting an issue involving men, there would be a number of women who would complain about that too!
I think that a lot of people realise that men and women can be victims of rape and domestic abuse, in straight or same-sex relationships. Maybe positive effects of this campaign will include more men reporting domestic abuse and rape if it happens to them – Amnesty or other groups can then lobby the govt to try and ensure that they recieve the support they need too.
I think that all of those who have scrutinised the wording of the statement should draw their attention to the fact that the statement does not at any point say in it that men are not victims and nor does it say that women are never perpertrators. This is about raising a particular issue at a particularly relevant time for women…. in every campaign there are those who are not included and an ommission does not equal a dismissal of those not mentioned on that particular occasion. Statistics can always be manipulated and altered to suit particular groups, governments at any one time.. but again be reminded that this is not about blame/manipulation, this is about gaining recognition of the problem and subsequently highlighting the inadequate services that exist for survivors…. that cannot be disputed!
I think that my biggest conquest as a woman will be when my mother doesn’t have to cry anymore for my father; and when no woman has to cry for her husband.
i am a selfproclaimed “male feminist” & MYSELF A PERPETRATOR OF VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN IN MY FAMILY. Just now, as i wrote this sentence, i understood this hidden side of my life ( hidden even from me ) more fully than ever before. My violent incidents happened many decades ago, in my youth, & they were isolated not regular things,—- but that doesn’t take away the responsibility for them, or the necessity to identify & fight this part of myself. It needs a movement by women & men to confront us all with ourselves. The broader the movement’s target, the less effective it is. “Violent crime” doesn’t pinpoint the crime. “DV” or “intrafamily crime” is it. i don’t need to quibble over stats when it comes to fighting self. i am here. i am starting the process right now. Thinking the crime over, identifying it on a daily basis, smashiiing it to its roots. Seize the hour.
Wish to help as worker if you organization
Thanks
Shaukat Hussain
(Receptionist)
National University of Computer & Emerging Sciences
FAST-NU
B-Block, Faisal Town
Lahore (54700)
PAKISTAN
Tel: 0092-042-111 128 128
Tel: 0092-042-5165680-83
Fax: 0092-042-5165232
Gracias Amnesty !!!
A favor de la aceptación de la diversidad. Exijo igualdad de derechos para todos los niños, mujeres y hombres del planeta. Que nadie someta a otro ser humano. Que no exista la esclavitud laboral. Estoy en contra de todo tipo de discriminación, de violencia de género, de persecusión política, étnica o religiosa.
Deseo un mundo en donde todos los ciudadanos y ciudadanas sean libres, que gocen de derechos humanos en igualdad de condiciones.
Libertad para pensar, libertad para estudiar, libertad para aprender, libertad para enseñar, libertad para trabajar, libertad para vivir.
Elena Panella
Sewing a better future on International Women’s Day
Read more on the British Red Cross website
http://www.redcross.org.uk/news.asp?id=91320
Indeed I would have liked to have taken part in this but didn’t recieve the information until 06.03. 09 which takes the balls out of the protest.
The ridiculous thing abut some of these comments is that no one has suggested men = perps and women = victims. It’s entirely a conclusion jumped to by the commenter. How on earth can anybody have a problem with raising awareness around the idea that “each year, around 1 in 10 women in Britain experience rape or other violence”?
Fiona,
This is a good and much needed campagn, and I support it entirely, but the data does seem very weak. The report quotes 3 million crimes of gender-based violence against women every year. (which, by the by, isn’t 1 in 10; If ‘women’ means over female and older than 16, it is closer to 1 in 8). However, Home Office data puts total violent crime at about 1 million crimes every year — how are they measuring unreported crime (always tricky), and how have they got it it to be six times higher than the reported numbers (other sources tend to put it at 3 times higher)?
Excellent campaign and I’m saddened to see so many jumping on it negatively to push their own issues. As Fiona has said, this campaign is to highlight the violence perpetrated agaisnt women BECAUSE they are women, mugging etc is not included becuase it is not gender based violence. No one is denying men are victims of violence, or women are perpetrators but this it not what this campaign is about, if you want a campaign about that, set one up, don’t hijack and discredit a worthy campaign to make your own point.
International women’s day merseyside:
http://www.iwdmerseyside.co.uk
I completely agree with you Amelie too,
this is a campaign looking at violence agaisnt women, there are other causes of violence agaisnt men which is just as important, but please dont put down this campaign for merely being ‘what it is’.
I hope you guys get the support you deserve on this, following you on Twitter.
Weldone
As someone who was the victim of drink spiking and subsequent sexual abuse, I found the medical care on offer (not in Britain mind you) to be outstanding, however at all points of medical consultation, I was warned of the “risk” of reporting the crime to the authorities. The overwhelming feedback that made its way back to the doctors who were treating me was that the authorities treated victims like they “got what was coming to them”, in some way provoked or deserved the attack, and didn’t really have any “right” to lodge any official complaints. In the unlikely event that my case ever made it to a courtroom, I was warned that I could expect to have my name dragged through the mud and my reputation left in ruins, most likely for no outcome at all.
So thank you for this campaign, but please also consider the importance of legal assistance and the need to provide adequate policies and assurances so that those who report crimes against them will not be made to feel that they are the one at fault, or will simply not report the crime at all for fear of this unacceptable outcome.
How familiar is the phrase “he was asking for it?”…
Does Amnesty International support men affected by domestic abuse?
They are as much victims as women are!
I have very little sympathy for ‘victims’ of DV – they go back time and time again to the violence.
If they want to return all well and good but their kids should be taken from them.
Its so sad that one can’t campaign for good things without others trying to undermine the sentiment. Everyone despises violence against the vulnrable, which absolutely includes men, as they often find admitting violence at the hands of a female difficult because of the cultural weaker sex stereotype, and any campaign which fights violence can only be good for the community as a whole.
In response to LARA
‘victims’ of DV can just as well be a mother at the hands of her violent teenage offspring, how can she not ‘go back’?, and for those who are suddenly set upon by a violent partner for the first time, do they not deserve support? or if it is the choice between living on the street or putting up with a belittling partner, not a violent one? DV comes in all forms and often completely robs the victim of all self worth. I hope you never need the support of this kind of organisation.
Hey everyone
Amelie and Sarah, testify!
I agree passionately with you!
We do have to remember that although violence against men, is of course an issue, but that’s not what we’re dealing with.
I mean, donm’t you find that the biggest killer of females is domestic violence?
Women are violated merely for being women, and it really does sadden and disappoint me to see so many who don’t see this as a problem.
Hannah May
the unwitting or witting inference is the one i referred to earlier ie women are VICTIMS and should be seen as such
Happy with that are you
read the message who on earth thought this was a good campaign
when even the headline figure is inaccurate to put it kindly
so Hannah” women are violated for being women”so do you want the notion of gender hate crime
in the UK criminal justice system with a higher penalty for people convicted of crimes against women (only if they are men )
The jury would be out forever and ever the whole process would grind to a halt
hello chloe
no I dont agree with Amnesty in all its policies regarding this campaign but I am here to express my opinions. Its a shame that you feel the need to describe that as being sad.
Its what Amnesty is about.freedom of expression Article 19 applies to this blog unless I am mistaken.
There is a persistent problem with interest groups exaggerating the scale of the problems they exist to combat.
As noted by other commentators, women’s groups repeatedly exaggerate the scale of domestic violence against women, often using utterly unscientific methods and absurdly wide definitions to bolster numbers.
Here is an old but excellent piece that may very well shock those of you attached to the myth the problem of domestic violence is a simple oppressor/oppressed story with evil men brutalising innocent women:
http://home.comcast.net/~philip.cook/essays/the_whole_truth_about_dv.htm
In every single negative social index – from poor health, suicide, educational failure, life expectancy, being victims of violence – men dwarf women.
Additionally men face dire discrimination in the family courts, medical funding, the criminal justice system and elsewhere.
If you really gave a damn about human rights, you might focus your attention on the vastly more troubled of the two genders.
For those interested in the growing backlash against the anti-male bunk and discrimination, check out Menkind or http://www.fathers-4-justice.org .
Sorry… WHERE does this statistic come from? I know over 60 women and not 1 of them has ever been a victim of rape or physical violence. Please can you justify your scare-mongering. Thanks.
Amnesty is misinformed on this issue and misinforming us.
Most gender based violence is against men who are targated specifically because of their gender. They are targatd by other men.
That is the definition of gender based violence e.g. to be a victim because of your gender.
The DV lobby is constantly creating new and innovitive ways to ignore the biggest victims of all violence e.g. men.
Men always have been and always will be the biggest victims of violence. Amnesty has been willingly mislead by feminst research on DV issues.
Regarding the 1 in 10 and 1 in 4 stats. 1 in 4 is correct and comes from Home Office study 191
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs/hors191.pdf
Which also concluded 1 in 6 men are victims too.
The 1 in 10 stats is a Home Office creation.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/hors237.pdf
As an example of Home Office lies on gender issues and the gender bias method of research visit here
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs04/hors276.pdf
go to page 119 paragraph Piloting and you will see in the small print that UK government alleged Gender Nuetral domestic violence only uses feminst researches, is designed by women for women and does not have time to consult men. And they refer to that as Gender Nuetral.
Now they ony use feminst researchers in there so called Gender Nuetral reaearch.
I know because I studied Home Office domestic violence research in depth.
The methodogy used in the rape survey was created by feminist professors Sylvia Walby and liz Kelly.
See http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/hors237.pdf
page ii.
Walby describes herself as a Feminist Ressearche in various conferences she attends.
http://www.cwasu.org/displayAuthorsPublications.asp?author_key=43
and Kelly
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/about-us/freedom-of-information/released-information/foi-archive-crime/7478-domestic-violence-documents?view=Html
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Women-Violence-Male-Power-Feminist/dp/0335195067
Kelly and Walby advised the Home Office e.g. Myhill and Allen, how to research and they included such things that if a married women had sex with her husband to please him that was classified as rape e.g. if she had sex to get a good nights sleep that counted as rape. If she had a headache but still had sex, guess what? That was rape too.
Guys if you aint a rapist either your father, your brother, your cousin,your neighbour, your uncle or your grandfather is. And if none of them is a rapist, then someone is lying according to The Home Office.
Sorry everyone but in my humble view, and as an active supporter of Amnesty, we are either being mislead on this issue by men hating- misanderists-within Amnesty. Or Amnesty has been mislead.
As an active member I firmly believe there are misanderists working in high places within Amnesty otherwise we woud not be excluding men from the domestic violence campaign.
This policy is similar to focussing on anti racism but ony menioning racism agaisnt one race and ignoring the other victims too. It is unjustifiable and is misanderistic e.g. sexist against men.
On this campaign I say Shame On Amnesty.
Fiona Mclaren speaking of behalf of Amnesty, openly admits that men are the largest constituant group of victims of male ( which is gender based ) violence.
Fiona says; ” men are the VICTIMS and perpetrators of the vast majority of violence”
I openly accuse Amnesty of sexism against men by consciously ignoring the largest victim group and focusing on the smaller group e.g. women, at the expence of the larger group e.g. men.
There can be no justification for ignoring the largest victim group. In my view the only reason for excluiding vulnerable men is sexism.
Please consider that when men raise the issue of male victimisation, which is what we are doing here on this board. It appears we are not taken seriously.
Sexsism in action?
Gary.
You make many valid points.
It does often seem that some proponants of the female=victim and male=perpetrator theory simply are not used to be challanged about their views, as you have rather skillfully done.
And sometimes due to the lack of factual evidence emotional name calling is resorted to as a last resort. And as you point out that has already happened to you here. That is rather unfortunate.
Keep strong and together we can stand up for the biggest victim group of gender based violence which Amnesty is choosing to ignore.
Stand up for the silent victims of male-gender based violence.
Take care and more strength to you.
Stephen Hendry.
UK FEMALE VICTIMS OF GENDER BASED VIOLENCE;
2007/2008 UK adult female victims of male violence=1.5% of female adult population.
(Adult male victims of female violence=1.4%)
http://www.mankind.org.uk/PDFs/Key%20Statistics%20Feb%2009_final.pdf
BBC SURVEY OF DOMESTIC GENDER BASED VIOLENCE;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2752507.stm
” Have you been involved in domestic violence or an incident of forced sex in any relationship?”
27% of women and 21% of men admit to being victims.
” Have any of the following things ever happened in a relationship where you have been living together?”
SLAP/PUNCH/KICK?
19% of men answered yes and 24% of women said yes.
In both examples women experience slightly more gender based violence than men.
==
I would be happier with the statistics if they came from an independant source. Where do the figures for DV being the biggest cause of death of women in the 15-44 age group come from? As someone who works in a hospital I would say women in this age group are most likely to die from road accidents or illness. While sexual harrassment and stalking are distressing they are not violence.
Domestic violence and rape are serious issues which makes it all the more important that information is accurate and used intelligently.
The figures for death are global, but I still wonder how accurate they are. Deaths from DV may be higher in developing countries but I suspect deaths from illness and childbirth are higher still.
The ’statistics’ pertaining to DV as (globally) the biggest killer of 15 – 44 year old women was NOT made by Fiona / Amnesty; it was made by Sol – another poster.
No one is denying that there are many types of violence against many types of people. It is a shame that Amnesty (one member of the End Violence Against Women coalition) chose to use the tabloid style figure of 1:10. If you are interested in more detailed research about the background information and campaign – on a larger scale – visit http://www.mapofgaps.org
The campaign states that any woman who suffers violence because she is a woman should have the appropriate support network wherever she lives. At the moment, it works more on a postcode lottery. Acts of violence against women include: DV; rape and sexual violence; forced marriage and ‘honour’-based violence; trafficking and sexual exploitation; stalking; sexual harrassment; sexual abuse of girls; and female genital mutilation (FGM). These are all violent acts carried out against women because of their sex. Oliver’s comment that trafficking and FGM can’t really be included is naive – unfortunately, these violence acts do happen IN the UK.
In reply to Mike’s comment that he knows ‘60′ women and they have not been the victims of rape or physical violence – I would be surprised if you could say this with 100% certainty… many women do not report such acts of violence or even speak of them to family or friends. For all you know, some of them may have previously suffered and here you are shouting down a campaign for scaremongering.
As for Lara’s comment: I am at a loss as to what to say and second Jane’s notion – I hope she never has to try and get support from the (sparse) services on offer.
Women organising against DV/rape is NOT sexism. Selfdefense is a NATURAL for all oppressed groups! Men must organise on their “own” issues BEFORE Amnesty can take up those up.But men’s violence issues will be PRIMARILY internal — mainly MEN-ON-MEN violence. Only after the imperialist/racist/ homophobic/ sexist/classist factors behind this violence are identified & struggled against can men BEGIN to enter the realm of organised self-identity & be taken seriously as a group.This is not a primarily WOMEN’S task. i have NEVER seen a PURELY MEN’S'S movement worth identifying with, yet.
michael, still a feminist
Jane,
Your response to Lara is accurate. i know from my own role as a violence-perpetrator in my youth that we violent men are EMBEDDED in single/extended families as offspring/brother/cousin, etc. Women can’t just up & leave their entire families !! Also DV doesn’t affect only family members– in my youth again i once violently hit a young domestic worker ( a maid ) !! She & her family had worked all their lives for mine–her history was tied up since both our childhoods with my own.In those years female domestic workers were unorganised. When we see things case-by-case, we see the complexities.
michael,brought facetoface with my history by your campaign
Michael is a feminist.
Thanks Michael for your honesty that you are a Feminist.
Your views do read as Feminist e.g. prioritising female victimisation and female suffering above male suffering and male victimisation.
As you correctly stater “women organisign against DV/rape is not sexism.” The problem is sometimes the manner in which it is done actually is sexist e.g. denying men are victims. Equating all men as perpetrators and some very negative gender stereotyping etc.
Lets unite to help ALL victims of gender based violence.
hiyaaa pal,
Please vote for this online petition to prevent the incidence of female infanticide in India. Cast your vote here!
“The problem is sometimes the manner in which it is done actually is sexist e.g. denying men are victims”
Stephen – not one person on here has denied that men can be victims too. Rather, we have highlighted that there is an issue of violence against women because of their sex.
“Equating all men as perpetrators and some very negative gender stereotyping etc”
Again, no one here has said that all men are perpetrators. It seems to me that you are the one jumping to stereotyped conclusions. Someone mentions that women are often the victims of violence based on their gender and that there are not enough services and support networks in place – and your immediate reaction is to assume we’re saying all men are violent aggressors.
Stephen Hendry, my Brother,
i am not prioritising anyone over anyone. i am against the idea & practice of prioritising. NOTHING IS RELATIVE, BUT EVERYTHING IS RELATED.
My Brother,
Specialisation is needed to address each & every problem. Lumping things together is not good for a movement. Narrow your target to hit it.
My Brother,
Women today are speaking as a gender. This doesn’t mean they attack each & every one of us.
They are speaking historically as a gender oppressed for ages. Do not misunderstand them, but understand them in relation to their struggle to be free.
My Brother, the recognition women get today is because of this long struggle. Your recognition will come when you come out in your own struggle.
My Bother, of course men are oppressed . By empire, by the rich, by the “master race”, by the imposition of sexual laws. And when men fight back powerfully, it’s always by specialising their identity. Historically women have been a part of this struggle, it’s from this joint struggle they initially learned to fight.
My Brother, i believe that by identifying “genderbased violence” as a phenomenon you contribute to the dialog between oppressed men & oppressed women. You have made me think about this by conceptualising my unfocused ideas on this matter.i had never ever really identified this problem to which you have given me a name today. You have built a bridge for all sexes by identifying it. The task is to identify the various planks making up this bridge. Only then can we walk across.
michael, your brotber in this battle
This campaign is misanderistic. And here is why;
Amnesty states; ” The focus of this campaign is on tackling the specifics of gender-based violence; violence that is suffered disproportionately or exclusively by women and is targeted at women because they are women. Amnesty UK”
This definition of gender based violence is completely sexist as it ignores the gender based violence perpetrated against men.
Men have always been the largest constituent group of gender based violence.
Let me make it clear;
The majority of victims of violence are men who are attacked by other men because they are men. They are attacked because of their gender.
Some extreme examples of this is that in war situations you may see villages full of women and children but no men. The women suffer rape which is terrible. But in many cases the men from the villiage have all been killed.
I repeat the men have all been murdered, and lets be honest, being killed because you are a man is about as fatal as gender based violence can get.
Rape is terrible and some victims can not live with the consequences but it is not as serious as murder. Murder is always fatal rape is not.
If you want to be super PC you can say this Amnesty campaign is Gender Specific or Female Centric or even Positive Discrimination.
However myself and numerous other men on these boards suggest this discrimination is sexist discrimination.
Michael, with the greatest of respect and in all humility I object to your calling me brother.
The reason is that after reading your posts here, I politely propose that as an ex perpetrator of violence against women you have completely accepted some misanderistic attitudes against your own gender.
And becausde of what I perceive as your anit male stance, with the greatest of respect to you I can not see myself as your brother.
I do not say this to upset you but only after reading your mails which you have posted here.
This campaign discriminates against men by ignoring our victimisation and if you read the campaign home site; http://www.amnesty.org.uk/content.asp?CategoryID=10220
And visit the linked blogs etc you will see some statements against men that show the type of misanderistic mentality which I suggest drives this campaign.
That Amnsesty consciously chooses to link to these misanderistic sites exposes misandry by Amnesty.
There can be no justification for ignoring the largest victim group of gender based violence.
THIS CAMPAIGN IS MISANDERISTIC.
Jo.
I did say “sometimes” DV campaigns identify all mens as perpetrators. I stand by my statement and here is some factual evidence;
I just quicly looked at this campaigns home page. There is a link to Womens Aid;
http://www.womensaid.org.uk/domestic-violence-survivors-handbook.asp?section=0001000100080001&itemTitle=The+Survivor%27s+Handbook
On many occasions Womens Aid have released statements to the government and on it’s official documents that domestic violence is gender specific.
GENDER SPECIFIC.
Do you know what that means?
In Womens Aid research it means that the incidents of dometic violence perpetrated against men is so minimul that they feel justified to infrom government that DV is gender specific.
That is despite the fact at least one one man is murdered in the UK every 10 days by his partner and that gender nuetral DV research shows men and women suffer approximetly equally.
So yes some campaigns to highligtht male violence against women do use misanderistic tactics. In the past especially Womens Aid have resorted to this.
Michael.
You state; ” I am not prioritising anyone over anyone. I am against the idea & practice of prioritising.”
This campaigns prioritises female suffering over male suffering. It does this by completely ignoring male victims of gender based violence.
To ’13strong’ – ‘women physically and emotionally abuse children far more often than men’. What?! Ha ha..
Men have taken over a lot of space on what should be women talking women’s issues on Women’s Day. Would like to hear women, but methinks the women have wisely moved on.
Mr Hendry’s accurate about men being offed by men in war. Undeniable. But that’s not discrimination, which is what Amnesty’s campaign is about. In war it’s policy or drafting which targets men, not discrimination.And in war it’s not “men”, but a “side”, a state,or a race, which inflicts violence on men ( & women ) of the other side. Amnesty’s campaign’s about social problems in civil society, a different thing .
No discrimination, no movement.That’s why there’s no men’s lib movement. Our grievances as purely “men” are circumstantial & individual, but women’s are historic,social & fundamental.
i completely feel for Mr. Hendry’s anguish at men suffering violence from other men. But Amnesty can’t campaign on tbis — this is something that only a general social revolution, a cultural revolution, can attempt.
michael, open
WHEN YOU ARE TOLD YOU ARE NOT ALONE IT IS NOT TRUE YOU ARE ALONE! YOU MAY NOT BE THE ONLY ONE BUT WHEN YOU NEED IT WHERE IS THE HELP? WHERE IS THE JUSTICE? WHERE IS THE HUMAN RIGHTS? WHERE ARE THE POWERFUL ORGANISATIONS THAT CAN HELP? WHERE ARE THE “INVESTERS IN PEOPLE?” I’M STILL SEARCHING IS ANYONE ELSE? LIVING IN HOPE…
Margaret Scottgregory,
When you need them, no organisation,no rights talk,no helper, come to aid. Then,give up all illusion, come outside, begin long walk alone —- & then, on the Way, if you keep walking, back, back, to your Source, you will meet
the companions & the lovers you are destined to find.
michael, on the journey
Dear Protect The Human members,
i’m urging you to please consider launching campaigns on the following urgent and pending issues.
1. The Tamil people in Sri Lanka are facing the murderous offensive of Sri Lanka’s army and government. The government refuses the Tamil offer of a ceasefire. They seek a final solution which in the case of oppressed nations is impossible of achievement. The army is attacking the single hospital serving the crowded Tamil population in this Gaza of South Asia. Surgeries for the seriously wounded have come to a halt days ago. Our organised voices are needed calling for a halt to the military offensive and an immediate ceasefire.
2. With Obama’s arrival, it is high time to urge him to pardon & free the American Indian leader , Leonard Peltier. Peltier , unjustly imprisoned on doctored evidence for 32 years now, is today a diabetic who is going blind. Recently he was savagely beaten by guards, this old and beloved leader in his 60s. It seems a lifetime ago i requested Amnesty, as part of a global campaign, to acknowledge him as a prisoner of conscience, but you wouldn’t concede him that status apparently on grounds of what constitutes conscience to you. While you have time, rectify this on-your -record poverty of true conscience with a campaign
demanding the U. S Government release him at long last.
3. Mordecai Vanunu needs a campaign for his freedom as well. This principled revealer of Israel’s secret nuclear stockpiling is another genuine prisoner of conscience, recognised by you or not. With Israel targeting Iran for her nuclear program, Vanunu’s case is tremendously relevant as well as overdue. We should all demand Israel free him and let him go abroad.
michael
Dear Protect The Human members,
Has Amnesty ever recognised Mordecai Vanunu as a Prisoner of Conscience ?
If not, would you ?
michael, most respectfully
53 prisoners have been cleared for release by the U.S. from Guantanamo.
Not a single one of them have been freed since Obama came.
He’s pased his first 100 days, and counting ……….
AND MEANWHILE
the Predator drone strikes have now become his signature presence in the Pashtun skies over pakistan !!!
Nothing has changed from Wounded Knee to Waziristan.
Numbers may be my heel of Achilles, & apologies are due all for my twin errors in numbers yesterday. First, the more serious error : not 53, but 59, prisoners have been cleared for release by the U.S.A., but have yet to be set free from America’s Islamic reservation. The other error is, Obama’s been 2 months in power, not 100 days s i had it. My slip may be Freudian, confess i’ve been looking ever so keenly for that FINAL GRAND WATERLOO of the Anglo/american World for as long as i can remember……..
michael, still looking
Greetings to the People marching in Londinium against Capital’s G20 talkers. While some still expect these socalled “leaders” to “deliver” what the People are calling for, many among the People have ( long ago ) moved beyond any expectations from this score of discredited global criminals. The People are calling for the smashing of the Rich & the distribution of what the Poor themselves make. They refuse to pay for the crisis the Rich have created. They see thru the illusions of “democracy” spread by the big media. But state & corporate power still stands in their way. What they have is only what they hold in the palm of their hands.
On CNN last night, the ( Lebanese ? ) woman newsreader, Hala Gorani, expressed such sweet sorrow at the plight of the lone London banker who has to run a gauntlet thru the hordes of uncivic antiG20 protesters ( at mention of whom Gorani’s symapathy darkens & changes to a dignified disapproval distilled from eyes and voice ), as the banker man narrated the perils he faces on his way to & from work in “plainclothes”. ( Imagine ! a BANKER in plainclothes ! Where are we headed ?? Quo vadis, Civilisation ? ) No wonder the lady is CNN’s face on “Inside the Middle East”…She almost made London sound like Civil Wartime Beirut there ….Any guesses as to which side of that divide she’s on ? As for the folks who actually got blitzed by israel in Lebanon, which side do you think they’re rooting for in London ?
Regarding the People’s desire to trash the banks that have beggared billions of souls around the world ,CNN asked the banker being interviewed if his profession is being scapegoated for this Depression, a question nicely tailored to get the desired skinsaving response from the Man. The allegedly ‘rrrrrevolutionary” mood of the big media at the world economic crisis fizzles out the moment they see the very institutions of their patronage in danger of extinction.
This world — one big Reservation of captive nations, ridden by rival empires.
London 2009 & her onward rush of antiG20 throngs awake to the realities of the Agency system on this world Reservation which controls their lives, stripping off all their myriad manifold Sovereignties.
The People today see thru & penetrate the big media’s illusion of words.
Today they see beyond & move beyond the illusions of Reservation conditioning which even Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, & other such groups have to a large extent internalised.
They see tbru & beyond the lies of the Great White Father, of whatever shade of palid he may be,
inside & outside.
But the Peoples on the Reservation are themselves unable yet to break free of the Agents & Agency police running herd on them, to break free of CENTURIES of mental & physical & structural colonisation.
Beyond the Rez, the Reservation, are the nations fighting the empires on the battlefield.
By reason of their very location, their methods of defense are different from those of the Reservation Peoples.
Many bonds, blood & much else, bind all the Peoples, on & beyond the Rez.
As the corrupt Agency system totters, the Reservation Peoples, many of them, know that the history of the world will be determined on the fields of battle outside the Rez.
emm.. thanks..
If you ever want to hear a reader’s feedback
, I rate this article for 4/5. Detailed info, but I just have to go to that damn msn to find the missed pieces. Thank you, anyway!
Such news, good enough to have been brought by Inca road runners from across their 4 Quarters –
Fujimori’s in the dock !!!
The remorseless criminal head of Peru’s sinchi & Colina slaughter squads .
Protected by authoritarian Japan, itself remorseless about its own warcrimes in WW2.
Fujimori’s BIG MISTAKE was to step outside Japan for a visit to South America, close enough to the scene of his crmes to be grabbed .
Indeed his crimes number far, far more than he’s being charged with — hope the verdict comes closer to fitting the bill.
His ambitious daughter says “Fujimorismo” will return –
“Fujimorism”, as if he were kindof political thinker & statesman, not latterday Japanese fascist . Fujimorism HAS returned to Peru indeed, & with such summary speed & force…..
Have you heard, the Reservation of the Ami People in Hualien, Taiwan, has just been “nationalised” by the Taiwanese government ?
This government’s opening the door wide to China & the Chinese, & taking away the last lands of the native peoples.
In another major case they’re trying to remove an entire community from their final ancestral land.
In both cases the native peoples are in resistance.
“PROTECT THE HUMAN” — & the human’s most wisely protected on the land, in the indigenous connection to the land.
The statistics are incorrect in Britain as with the cases of sexual violence ( rape) the home office has said 1 in every 4 women are raped, however other statistics say 1 in 3 women are raped, and perhaps there are more than 1 in every 3 women ( what are they saying maybe every 1.5 in 3 women or even 2 in every 3 women) that will suffer sexual violence in thier lifetime. I myself am a survivor of numerous rapes, gang rapes, date rapes & drug rapes, i have probably been raped 40+ times, i have been suicidal and nearly died after 1 suicide attempt. No one cared about me getting raped, not my parents and not the law or state or my community. Everyone hushed me up, i was told there wasn’t anything i could do about it. How is this justice?, how is this protection of women against rape? It simple ‘ THERE IS NO PROTECTION OF WOMEN AGAINST RAPISTS’, that’s why this crime has increased, men are selfish they know they can get away with raping women & the Law & Judical system will help them get away with it. Britain has licenced men to rape women, the new laws that Britain has with women & rape don’t mean a thing, the old Judicial system is the same as it was years ago, they are just hoodwinking the people and at the same time Human Rights. That was the intention all along to hoodwink Human Rights, nothing has changed and as a result rape has increased. Men are so confident about getting away with rape, they are even posting videos of rape on you tube & only some of those are getting prosecuted now, others are not, this is the extent of the confidence that men have in getting away with rape, as they know all too well that in numerous other circumstances they get away with the crime of rape. Men want women in a stupour so they can easily rape them & have a good time, as a woman fighting back is a sexual turn off, also in many cases a woman is too scared and freezes anyway, so she doesn’t fight back in any case, either way men just want to ensure thier selfish good time of raping a woman.
Let’s face it we have sexual inequality, women will never be able to defend themselves against rape anyway, the average woman cannot tackle the average man. Not only do we have inequality as a gender to start with, we have inequality where the justice system works as well!
A woman’s word should be taken, it is a myth & a sexist lie that women cry false rape, this is pure male sexism & bigotry.
mm. cognitively ))
Dear, dear Shelley,
Do you know how POWER – FILLED your voice is ?
All those who say the rape numbers given by women are too high, they can’t be true — you’ve just stripped naked this GREAT LIE of Society’s .
What you say is REAL — the State never cared for the raped, & there is no “community” anymore to wreak justice. Even”family” is a LIE, there fpr its own greed !! The “Law” is the instrument of the cruel, & as for”human rights”, as you have revealed, it can be one great HOODWINKING too, a mask to hide our collective / individual face with !! Your vision of the world as it IS — i share it, i believe it to be so. BILLIONS of people know that it IS so. Last night Khadija Ali, speaking for the Somali “pirates”, the fisherfolk of her land who have been first dispossessed by the pious West & then dismissed as “pirates”, spoke unflinchingly as you have done of this COMPLETE absence of justice right to the arrogant & insulting face of that CNN whiteman, Jim – - -.
But see you, Shelley, you have come out of an incredible lifetime of rape to tell the truth. You are a survivor like none other !!! Women as you are not weak. Not as gender, not as being. Where women face the Enemy, they find power. In Manipur, a land colonised by india, the women come out to patrol the streets at night & thrash drunks back to sense, — the women come out NAKED on the streets there to mobilise against the rapes by the Indian Army. And if you saw the women mine workers of Chhatisgarh in central india who fight against rape, verily you would pity the rapists who fall into their hands !! If you heard of the native Santhal women in tribal bengal tying a tall & strapping would – be rapist to a tree & lashing him with buffalo – binding ropes, you would imagine a separate reality.
In the West this strength of the women has been lost & disarmed by the “Law’ & by culture, but believe in you, Shelley, for today you are part of the world of true which is not on any map.
Do not believe Society’s myth of the “helpless” woman.
Society operates thru such myths & lies, which operate thru women too & corrupt women as well. As you know better than me, women lie too, they lie to protect the rapist as well. Even THE Susan Brownmiller, who opened our eyes to a history of rape, has cried rape falsely at convicted Black men in america — EVEN after the men were proved innocent by DNA evidence. White feminists can lie to protect the real guilty of their race, for they benefit from the mass rape of the nonwhite in all the world’s stolen continents. And nonwhite women, too, can aid & abett the serial rapist & murderer of women of their own race — for they are now colonised & complicit in the process. This is the entangled history of long centuries of false mythologies we are now called upon to face & work thru, not detour from.
Beyond all the lies & myths is the realm of Woman’s Sovereignty, to be Known if sought & fought for.
i stand with the Tamil sisters & brothers in BRITAIN who are calling on the British government to URGE SRI LANKA TO IMMEDIATELY COMMENCE A CEASEFIRE IN THE WAR ZONE.
At least an estimated 4,500 CIVILIANS have already perished in the Army siege in the past weeks because of Sri Lanka’s refusal to halt its military operations.
This figure is FAR HIGHER than even the Palestinian fatalities in Gaza in Israel’s recent fullscale operations.
The real magnitude of the catastrophe in Sri Lanka is yet to be known as the Sri Lankan government refuses the media access to the entire affected areas, a news blackout exactly similar to Israel’s blocking of media coverage of its recent war on Gaza.
The Sri Lankan government must ALLOW THE MEDIA & HUMAN RIGHTS GROUPS TO MONITOR the full situation on the ground.
i request Amnesty and PROTECT THE HUMAN to urgently activate on this issue immediately.